The new charter should stipulate a mechanism or committee empowered to drive reforms to ensure the next government presses ahead with change, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha told the Bangkok Post Tuesday in an exclusive interview.
See below for major excerpts of the interview in the prime minister's own words.
Gen Prayut said it is obvious the 11 areas of reform currently being debated by the National Reform Council (NRC) cannot be completed before elections, expected at the end of this year or in early 2016.
Since he assumed power, he has initiated changes such as beach cleanups and crackdowns on land and forest encroachment, said Gen Prayut.
The second stage of reforms is the passing of a backlog of laws by the National Legislative Assembly (NLA).
Fundamental reform such as overhauling the police force, the bureaucracy and other key areas will be the responsibility of a new government, he said.
However, the prime minister is keen to ensure the reform push continues beyond the polls, and is urging charter drafters to build in a mechanism compelling the next government to keep up the momentum.
"Why not stipulate reforms in the new charter? You have to write into the charter a mechanism that would ensure reform. Can you accept this?" Gen Prayut asked.
This mechanism could be a body or committee in the Senate or House. "Write it into the charter. The terms of such a body could be for only one or two governments. If you don't write this in, let me ask you, will the new government initiate reforms? No way. Find the mechanism and make sure the law protects these people. Give them the authority.
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"Maybe they will need to have the authority to propose laws related to reforms and not just wait for MPs to draft reform laws. They [MPs] won't do it," he said.
Gen Prayut said the section could be written in a way that ensures reform laws involve parliament and have the government's backing. "If you don't have this mechanism, the government and MPs will not carry it out."
Gen Prayut did not mince his words when he spoke about how people discuss issues related to reform and reconciliation, saying they often point the finger in his direction.
"People say there are problems and blame me. If there are problems with reconciliation, they blame me. If there are problems with reform, they blame me. If there are political divisions, they blame me. The various parties should look at themselves," he said.
During his official visit to Japan, Gen Prayut assured the Japanese government and businessmen that elections would be held at the end of this year or early next year. Japan had asked about progress in the regime's roadmap back to democracy.
However, questions remain as to whether Thailand can overcome its political divisions and instability after the polls. "I am not worried about the elections. I am more worried about what happens before them," he said.
The charter is supposed to be ready by September, but Gen Prayut said whether the drafters hit their deadline is not up to him. "You'll have to ask them," he said. Once the charter is ready, organic laws need to be passed and Gen Prayut admitted he was concerned about delays if the drafters try to pass all the laws at once.
"Whether the draft is ready in time is not up to me. I reaffirm that I want elections by early next year. But if they [charter drafters] keep arguing and cannot agree, will the draft be ready in September?
"All political groups have to find the charter acceptable. If by September it's done, we need to draft the organic laws. I say get the laws, which are really necessary to allow elections to be held, done first. Not all the organic laws have to be passed," he said.
"But after the elections, if one side wins, will their opponents accept the results? We don't know. This is Thailand," Gen Prayut added.
Asked whether he found it challenging changing from his army chief role to that of prime minister, Gen Prayut said: "Why is it difficult? I don't have to do everything myself. I have to read. I use my head and decide what to do first, what to do next. I prioritise in my head."
"I don't think it's difficult [being prime minister]. You have to think carefully. If you get too involved you will start thinking, 'What will I gain? What will I lose?'
"People say I am wrong to have staged the coup. Yes, I was wrong but now I have done it I am ready to sacrifice myself to get what is right and just. I think of it as turning a crisis into an opportunity. We can't resolve all the issues because they have been mounting up for a long time," he said.
Gen Prayut arrived back in Bangkok Tuesday evening.
Prayut targets critics at home
Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha is confident and believes in himself. He does not mince words. On the final leg of his visit to Japan while riding the high-speed Shinkansen (bullet train) from Tokyo to Osaka, he spoke about his role as prime minister, what makes him angry and the future of reform and reconciliation. Here are excepts of the exclusive interview with Bangkok Post editor Pichai Chuensuksawadi
Question: Can you explain what the difference is between being army chief and prime minister? What adjustments did you have to make?
Prime Minister Prayut: In principle it's a matter of government administration. Even as an officer to army chief you make adjustments [through the ranks]. All officers have to be a junior officer at some point and take orders. It all depends on your experience. Have you commanded troops? You have to be responsible for logistics and administration? There are many types of jobs.
If you have risen through the ranks then you will know about various areas. It also depends on how much interest you have. If you are a commander and have to fight in the field you have to look after your subordinates to ensure they are safe. You have to think about them all the time. If you are responsible for administrative matters, you must know how to draft documents - so your superiors are satisfied and happy.
If you rise through the ranks and have experience in both then you will command larger units. And you must do this with principles. Now, when I became army chief, they looked at us as if we were of no use. I had to explain whether to fight or if we had a purpose. If you negotiate with someone and you have no forces they won't listen to you. If you have troops who are strong and are well-trained, they will know and not bully you and you're in a position to negotiate.
But if you are weak, your economy is weak, no one will talk to you and even if they do they will take advantage of you. That's why we have an army − so we don't have to fight. If your army is weak then you won't be able to protect your country, your resources. If your army is weak they will encroach on your borders. You keep and support soldiers for 100 days so they can fight for one day, or not fight at all yet still win.
I have told our soldiers that we have to adopt new thinking - that they need to have initiative. My meaning of initiative is that there should be initiative within a framework or parameters which your superiors have given you. I have told everyone that their duty is to 1) defend the country, 2) develop the country, 3) maintain order. You can show initiative, but it must be within these parameters. That is why they are ready to do whatever I ask of them.
As I have said I was never ready for a coup d'état. I had the army ready to help the people. Helping the people - ensuring the safety and possessions of the people no matter which government before 22 May. Why did we come out? Because people were being attacked. This was my responsibility as a a soldier. This was my duty to the people - for the country, religions and monarchy.
But when there was a situation when the government was unable to solve problems, administration of the country was stuck and there were no [enforcement of] laws, I acted so no further damage would occur. Then I thought we would have elections and start again. That's all I thought.
But now that we are here and I am administering the country - as I have said before - this is not a difficult matter. If you pay attention, it's not difficult if you pay care and attention and study. In the past eight months [since the coup], I have not been sitting around enjoying myself. I read a lot. I read all the reports. If you read the reports then you will know what the problems are. This is for every ministry. Just separate the issues - what are the problems, what are the details and how can we solve them?
Q: But where do you get the time? You seem to be doing everything.
Why is it difficult? I don't have to do everything myself. I have to read. I use my head and decide what to do first, what to do next. I prioritise in my head. I divide issues into three areas - urgent and needing to be resolved quickly to alleviate hardship, what can be done now while in power and what must be passed on to the next government. I don't have to do it myself. I think and I order. I give out policies. Some people say I do not listen. But I listen and they are still talking about the same issues and problems, which I have already read in the reports. Why are you [officials] summarising these things for me again? I have read them. Now everyone knows my personality. The premier's job is to make decisions - similar to what an officer has to do.
In the past, all they [politicians] did was order. You need to find politicians who work like I do. Listen to your subordinates, listen to the ministries and then act. Don't just listen and if they say something or report something which you disagree with you say "no". If we have quality officials, we take care of them and are fair to them and they will want to work. If they propose three options you should not say "no", I propose number four.
Also, we must reject vested interests and cronyism. I don't think it's difficult [being prime minister]. You have to think carefully. If you get too involved you will start thinking what you will gain. People say I am wrong to have staged the coup. Yes, I was wrong but now I have done it I am ready to sacrifice myself to get what is right and just. I think of it as turning a crisis into an opportunity. Why can't we resolve issues? Because problems have mounted up for a long time.
Some problems are not easy to solve. For example, the price of lottery tickets. Did I have good intentions? I had good intentions. I ordered them to solve the problem. But in the end it got stuck at implementation. And in the end it turned out that I did not have the power. I think and I know people are suffering. And even today I am pushing them to solve the lottery problem. What we need to do is overhaul the whole structure and benefits, the old contracts.
Everyone wants me to use my power. But do you like it if I use power? If I use power and authority for the benefit of the people, that's good. But if I use power illegally, it's not. People want you to do things for their benefit. If they don't benefit, they don't want you to act. If you act, and they don't benefit, they criticise me. Thais cannot think like this. This is why I am angry.
Q: How can you stand or tolerate unfair criticism?
Because I love Thailand. Thailand has faced this all along. I am not criticising anyone in particular. But if there are no issues or problems I would not have had to stage a coup. I would not have had to come out and risk myself, my family, my friends and those who helped me. Why do I have to do this? Some people say I staged the coup to change the balance of power or for my personal benefit. I don't see what I get out of it. Not one satang. I don't know what to do with my prime minister's salary. I think people have to change.
Q: On your visit this time to Japan as prime minister you appear more confident than the first time you went overseas to attend the [Asia-Europe Meeting] Asem Summit. How difficult was it for you to learn to be premier? There must have been a period of adjustment.
I think I tried my best from the first time. At first, I admit, I wondered what they [other countries] would say since my visit was after the coup. That was my only thought. But what I have in me, it's been there all the time. I am a person who dares to say things. This is confidence in myself. I believe I have accumulated experience of what needs to be said. Don't forget that during military service I had to meet military attaches. I paid overseas visits.
I noticed that a lot of the time it's about protocol, about speaking, shaking hands. But the real substance revolves around the national interests of each country. If we give them [a country] something, they must give us something in return. It must be fair. The key in going overseas is that if they see we are sincere, they will trust us and be ready to cooperate with us. Like in Japan, I told them this is who I am.
Q: Do you consider your visit to Japan this time your most successful visit overseas?
For other meetings, say like the Asem, there were many European countries and that was more worrying. That's because it was a large meeting with many participants, and many were democratic countries. But they were courteous to me. The Foreign Ministry already laid the groundwork to forge understanding before I arrived. Japan is the first country with a Western-style democracy [I have visited on a bilateral basis].
The Chinese were not a problem. It is a country where they [the leadership] can issue orders and they think I can issue orders [like they do]. In reality can I issue orders like the Chinese do? No, I cannot. I use normal administrative procedures and processes, not a dictatorial manner. I have only used this power to transfer officials so there will be change. I have not used this at all but people keep saying that I have absolute power. I do but I do not use it.
But when people want benefits, they want me to use this power. But when they lose benefits they accuse me of being dictatorial. Thais need to think - how are we going to move the country forward? What are the interests of the country? Maintaining peace and order. Politics, yes, but do not use violence [referring to political parties or groups backing the use of violence]. Politicians should have the interests of the country at heart.
Q: When you met the Keidanren [Japan Business Federation] you assured them we would have elections at the end of this year or early next year. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe hopes reconciliation will be successful. What is your main concern after the elections?
I am not worried about the elections. I am more worried about what happens before them. The new charter is not ready. It has to be done by September. You have to ask those involved [the drafters] whether it will be ready in time. Whether the draft is ready in time is no use to me. I reaffirm I want elections by early next year. But if they keep arguing and cannot agree, will the draft be ready in September? All political shades have to find the charter acceptable. If by September it's done then we need to draft organic laws. I say get the laws, which are really necessary to allow elections to be held, done first. Not all organic laws have to be passed. But after the elections, if one side wins, will their opponents accept the results? We don't know. This is Thailand.
Q: Japan wants Thailand to return to being a country without severe political divisions, where politics is stable.
But who made it this way? Say their names. Tell them, don't tell me. It's not me. I made it stop. Now I am making it stop by using the law. Everyone has to accept the rules. We cannot have people refusing to accept the law or when the courts or the law say you are wrong you don't accept it. It's unacceptable that when you are judged as being in the wrong you flee. Or when a verdict is in your favour you say it is just but if a verdict goes against you, it's unjust. Everyone must accept the rules. I don't see anyone dying in jail.
Q: Politics is personal and it seems the protagonists only see their personal benefit and not the nation's interest. How can we solve this way of thinking?
It's not easy to get rid of it, like corruption. We try to limit all corruption. We need to focus on the new generation so they will not be corrupt. In the past, politics was about people who liked politics and they set up political parties even if they did not have money. Now a political party must have money. They use government money for their politics. This needs to be solved.
Q: With regard to reform, many people have very high hopes for the 11 areas of reform which the National Reform Council must address. We know it cannot be done. This being the case is there a specific reform you think is a priority?
In my thinking there are three periods - the first was the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) using absolute power, then there was the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) to issue laws, and third the new government must take charge. So, I reformed things myself. For example, reorganising the beaches. The second stage is the laws which need to be implemented over this year by the NLA. This is the second stage of reform. But for the main issues such as police reform, reform of the bureaucracy - that is the responsibility of the new government.
Q: But there's no guarantee this will take place once a new government is in place.
Why not? Why not stipulate reforms in the new charter? You have to write into this charter a mechanism to ensure reform? Can you accept this? It could be a body in the Senate or among the MPs whose role is to follow up and push for reforms. Write it into the charter. The term of such a body could be for only one or two governments. If you don't write this in the charter let me ask you will the new government initiate reforms? No way.
Find the mechanism and make sure the law protects these people. Give them the authority. Maybe they will need to have the authority to propose laws related to reforms and not just wait for MPs to draft reform laws. They [MPs] won't do it. You can write it in a certain way that reform laws must involve parliament and the government must agree. But if you don't have this mechanism for reform, the government and MPs will not think of it. People say there are problems and blame me. If there are problems with reconciliation, they blame me. If there are problems with reform, they blame me. If there are political divisions, they blame me. The various parties should look at themselves.
Pichai Chuensuksawadi is Editor-in-Chief of Post Publishing and Editor of the Bangkok Post.